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#1 2015-Feb-18 9:03 pm

PAUL
Member
Registered: 2012-Mar-04
Posts: 48

ADS-B Out

Naviator has supported the NavWorx box since a couple of versions ago. Does anyone have this? Can you report the results? Looks like about $3500 plus install for the ADS600-BG, antennas, and wi-fi adapter. With ADS-B out, you now have all the traffic you're supposed to have and not just in terminal areas. Seems like a reasonable price for all that.

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#2 2015-Feb-18 9:51 pm

jimgfitzgerald
Member
Registered: 2012-Oct-26
Posts: 530

Re: ADS-B Out

You have all the traffic that is being picked up by radar if you are receiving a ground station.

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#3 2015-Feb-23 7:49 pm

N18PF
Member
Registered: 2013-Jan-31
Posts: 30

Re: ADS-B Out

Does Naviator work with the new NavWorx ADS600-EXP?  It claims to be Wi-Fi connected, but I don't see a way to configure Naviator for a Wi-Fi device.  The $729 price tag for ADS-B in and out seems like a pretty good deal.

Paul Fisher

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#4 2015-Feb-23 9:25 pm

jimgfitzgerald
Member
Registered: 2012-Oct-26
Posts: 530

Re: ADS-B Out

I don't know if it works with that device, but it works with some WIFI ADS-B devices including the SkyGuard.  Go into your device settings and connect to your WIFI ADS-B device.  Then, open Naviator.

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#5 2015-Feb-24 7:34 am

N18PF
Member
Registered: 2013-Jan-31
Posts: 30

Re: ADS-B Out

Thanks Jim.  I didn't want to pursue the Navworx without confirming Naviator would still work.

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#6 2015-Feb-24 12:51 pm

Mike
Administrator
From: Vancouver, BC
Registered: 2011-Mar-16
Posts: 1,206
Website

Re: ADS-B Out

We do support the NavWorx ADS-B receivers and transceivers. As Jim mentioned, for the WiFi-enabled devices Naviator will connect to them automatically with no manual configuration necessary.

Cheers,
Mike

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#7 2016-Jul-22 9:43 am

JohnAJohnson
Member
Registered: 2013-Jul-20
Posts: 67

Re: ADS-B Out

Mike,
I have Naviator working perfectly with the Navworx ADS600-B Bluetooth IN.  It shows actual traffic as well as Navworx simulated traffic generated by their desktop software (which is connected to the ADS600-B's maintenance port).  The Naviator ADS-B Diagnostics screen shows green for the top three items and red for the bottom-most item.  I am on the ground and there is no UAT station available, so everything is working fine via bluetooth.

I cannot get traffic (simulated or real) to show up on Naviator via the Navworx ADS600-B WIFI IN.  I have connected the tablet to the ADS600-Bs WIFI server, turned off the tablet's bluetooth, and unplugged the Roving Networks bluetooth device from the ADS600-B just to make sure it doesn't connect that way.  As with bluetooth, Naviators ADS-B Diagnostics screen shows green for the top three items and red for the bottom-most item.  Everything appears to be working fine via WIFI, but there is no display of traffic on the tablet.

I've tried a couple of different tablets and had the same results.  Unfortunately I don't have any apps that will use Navworx WIFI, so I can't test any further.  Any ideas?

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#8 2016-Jul-28 7:47 am

maverick
Member
Registered: 2011-Sep-26
Posts: 50

Re: ADS-B Out

Maybe I can help. I am a NavWorX dealer and installer. I am not an expert, ask my wife. Do you have the WiFi adapter? Have you checked the pin wiring from the adapter to the ADS-B transceiver?  Have you tried another tablet with Naviator installed? Can you see NavWorX in your WiFi settings on your tablet? Have you connected this WiFi?  Need to start with the basics.
Your Transceiver will not broadcast until it is activated by a Transponder test set or by a radar hit on your plane's transponder asking for an interrogation. Until that happens you will not see all green on your tablet. Also until your system sees a ground station or is interrogated by another aircraft inside your Hocky Puck you will not get traffic.  There could be other reasons why your system is not ready for flight.
When you hook up the ADS-B NavWorX program, what does the status page state?
In Naviator, are you getting a green ADS-B OK symbol in the top left area?

I have subscribed to this discussion, but I might not get back to you right away. I have a number of systems up and working. They seem to work well, but I have had some problems with the FAA reporting system. I have a system in my own aircraft, but I can't test it, again after a flight with no report from FAA,  because of another lingering fuel flow problem. Just like the shoemaker, the aircraft mechanic doesn't have time to fix his own aircraft. Maybe this weekend.

Safe flying out there

JIM

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#9 2016-Jul-29 9:25 am

JohnAJohnson
Member
Registered: 2013-Jul-20
Posts: 67

Re: ADS-B Out

maverick wrote:

Maybe I can help. I am a NavWorX dealer and installer. I am not an expert, ask my wife. Do you have the WiFi adapter? Have you checked the pin wiring from the adapter to the ADS-B transceiver?  Have you tried another tablet with Naviator installed? Can you see NavWorX in your WiFi settings on your tablet? Have you connected this WiFi?  Need to start with the basics.

Appreciate the response Jim.  I have the Navworx WIFI adapter installed, as shown here: http://southshore.com/%7Ejaj/misc/NavworxWiring.pdf.  I can see the Navworx WIFI on all my devices and computers, and have no problem at all connecting successfully to it.  The wiring from the WIFI USB socket to the ADS600-B P1 has been checked and is fine.  I have tried two other tablets and have had the same results.  To me, it looks like a Navworx issue with a failure to output traffic over its WIFI device.  The WIFI may or may not output FIS-B either, but I'd have to get the plane up to 1500' to verify and I'm not ready to do that yet.

maverick wrote:

Your Transceiver will not broadcast until it is activated by a Transponder test set or by a radar hit on your plane's transponder asking for an interrogation. Until that happens you will not see all green on your tablet. Also until your system sees a ground station or is interrogated by another aircraft inside your Hocky Puck you will not get traffic.  There could be other reasons why your system is not ready for flight.
When you hook up the ADS-B NavWorX program, what does the status page state?
In Naviator, are you getting a green ADS-B OK symbol in the top left area?

The Navworx desktop software shows the system ready for flight.  OUT seems to be working fine.  The status page shows good information being caught by the TransmonSPE.   I haven't flown the system yet so I can't tell you if Naviator switches to a green ADS-B OK message when I get within UAT range, but there is no reason why it shouldn't.  But My problem for now revolves around TIS-B, and that is easy enough to duplicate on the ground with the Traffic Simulator in the Navworx desktop software.

Understood about the interrogation.  A local IDENT also induces the altitude and code into the TransmonSPE.  Works fine, but again, this isn't my problem, which is that I'm not getting traffic information through the Navworx WIFI module.  Connected to Navworx WIFI and looking at the Naviator ADS-B status, all are GREEN except for FIB-B, which is as it should be.  While connected as such, the message in the top left corner of Naviator, in orange, states "ADS-B Warning", which it always shows when not within range of a UAT station.  If there was a problem, it would state "ADS-B Error" in red.  The Navworx WIFI module does output "Own Ships Location" information, so baud rate, connectivity, etc., appear to be fine.  I can us this data to show present position, direction of travel, etc., in Naviator and other apps.

With the tablet connected to Navworx via Bluetooth, I get the same GREEN GREEN GREEN RED under Naviator's ADS-B Status page, but now, there is traffic across Naviator's map.  Works like it is supposed to.  I have tried other tablets (all android) and other apps.  All work great with all IN data via bluetooth and none work when using WIFI (except own ship position).

I have used AVARE's I/O module to dump what's coming out of WIFI and Bluetooth.  You can see screenshots of each at:

Bluetooth: http://southshore.com/%7Ejaj/misc/BT.jpg
WIFI: http://southshore.com/%7Ejaj/misc/WIFI.jpg

It appears to me that Navworx is not putting out TIS-B through its WIFI module and this may only be because I also have Bluetooth on Display 1, WIFI  on Display 2, and (in my case) ARINC 429 on Display 3 going to my GNS430.  As a side note, if you can help with this, traffic to the GNS430 works fine but only shows up on the Traffic page and not the Main Map page.  Any ideas on this one?  I am running a GNS430 Main SW 4.00, GPS SW 3.00.

Thanks!
John

Last edited by JohnAJohnson (2016-Jul-29 2:06 pm)

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#10 2016-Jul-31 6:46 am

maverick
Member
Registered: 2011-Sep-26
Posts: 50

Re: ADS-B Out

I got into this ADS-B stuff and then became a dealer, because I realized that the FAA didn't know how to explain what they are mandating really worked and its quirks. It will take them much longer to sort it out then the requirement date.  I think most of your problems are because you are not "seeing: an ADS-B ground station and/or you are not above the trigger ground speed. You receive FIS-B by a repeater from the ground station, not directly unless you have a FIS-B receiver in your aircraft. Try this link,  "http://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/ins_and_outs/"  This is half clear, because the FAA missed some important issues in their presentation. Most of what we get for ADS-B "IN" is from a repeater at the ground stations. You will get UAT to UAT or 1090 to 1090 in the air but again "trigger speed".  Trigger speed was set up so that aircraft on the ground especially at larger airport with ground surveillance would not be driving the controllers nuts. Don't get me going on this, because it makes my head hurt.

What you see in the NavWorx report is what NavWorx has seen from equipment in the aircraft, but until ground trigger speed it will not broadcast that information out to a ground station and other airplanes. So if you are not triggering a ground station, which you will not until trigger speed and ground station in sight, you will not get anything back to report on ADS-B "IN". UNLESS another aircraft in the area has triggered the ground station and you can see that ground station, then even though you are not at ground speed your ADS-B IN should work. It will not show your aircraft to others because your broadcast equipment "OUT" will not broadcast until trigger ground speed.  Confused yet.

This gets very confusing at our airport because the nearest ground station is at a higher altitude then the airport on a mountain and in sight. Pilots come for breakfast and can see traffic on their tablet while eating breakfast. Then they think this should work this way at every airport. You know how pilots are. They see it work one time and by the time the story gets told again it works at every airport. Then the next guy is pissed because he can't get his "IN" system to work that way.

I have no clue about the different pages on Garmin 430. It is something I need to learn in my spare time. I have not been a Garmin fan because of its earning curve and the proprietary connection of their equipment . My problem, not theirs. Next on my list to learn. I am a touchy feely guy so I can't just read something and have it set in my memory. I have to see it work. I know a Garmin guy, that I usually can talk to, but he is at OSH also.

I am not sure about multiple displays at the same time , because I haven't tried to use WiFi and Bluetooth at the same time. Not saying it won't work, I just haven't tried it. Usually my customers ask for one or the other.

Everybody is at OSH for the week, ( I was going to be there also but mechanical problems with my own plane destroyed that plan. Remember the shoemakers shoes?), so I couldn't talk to the expert I usually call about NavWorX problems at the factory.

Just wanted to reply, but when I have more answers I will add to this. Enough babbling for now.

JIM

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#11 2016-Jul-31 7:50 am

JohnAJohnson
Member
Registered: 2013-Jul-20
Posts: 67

Re: ADS-B Out

Thanks Jim

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#12 2016-Jul-31 10:51 pm

maverick
Member
Registered: 2011-Sep-26
Posts: 50

Re: ADS-B Out

OK, you are forcing me to learn Garmin. I tried to download a manual for the 430. I can do that but nowhere do I see a traffic page or any mention of one. What am I missing?

I have a LONG commercial airplane ride coming up this week so if I have all the information I can study to make the time pass. Anything you can do to help me would be great.

I do know that on my friends 695 he has to do something to make traffic show up on the main page.

JIM

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#13 2016-Sep-01 7:21 am

JohnAJohnson
Member
Registered: 2013-Jul-20
Posts: 67

Re: ADS-B Out

The problem with the Navworx WIFI isn't with Naviator or any app.  I had the Navworx WIFI connected to the Navworx Display 2, and the Bluetooth device connected to the Display 1.  According to Navworx, this should have allowed both WIFI and Bluetooth outputs to display traffic, but it didn't.  There was no traffic sent to the Display 2 device by the Navworx box.  I have since moved both Bluetooth and WIFI to Display 1 (and use a DPDT switch to select WIFI or Bluetooth) and it sends out traffic through either device.   Here's a schematic of how I did it if you want to have both WIFI and Bluetooth capabilities with a Navworx ADS600-B.

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