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#1 2016-Mar-24 11:46 am

clifton
Member
Registered: 2016-Mar-24
Posts: 2

Garmin GTX 345

Anyone know if Naviator is compatible with the Bluetooth interface for GPS and ADS-B In from the Garmin GTX 345?

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#2 2016-Mar-26 1:51 pm

ddelling
Member
Registered: 2013-Aug-09
Posts: 5

Re: Garmin GTX 345

I am wondering the same thing as needing to upgrade transponder soon and trying to decide between the 345 or the Lynx 9000+.
Not sure the 345 is shipping yet though.

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#3 2016-Mar-27 5:42 am

maverick
Member
Registered: 2011-Sep-26
Posts: 50

Re: Garmin GTX 345

Why do you need to upgrade transponder? If it is because of ADS-B and you want IN displayed on your panel, this equipment (Garmin GTX-345) is a good buy. According to a shop I work with in CA it will ship April 1st. If you just want to meet the ADS-B out requirement and get your ADS-B in on your Naviator program then there are ways without changing transponder. A lot less expensive.

JIM

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#4 2016-Mar-27 8:40 am

flyzone
Member
Registered: 2012-Oct-04
Posts: 223

Re: Garmin GTX 345

Some of us still have Narco transponders that are now unsupported in spite of the fact they are pretty bulletproof. The new ADS-B equipment offers us the opportunity to replace that stuff and get ADS-B at costs significantly less than the cost to do both. In addition these new transponders are Mode S, have some other nice features and are potentially even more reliable and use less power since they are built with newer technology. I'm looking at the Appareo unit since it will also provide an AHRS in conjunction with ADS-B and transponder replacement.  That cost is about $2.5K more than just a meets-the-requirements ADS-B upgrade. That turns out to make the whole upgrade a bit more of a reasonable bang for the buck and hits more than two birds with one stone.

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#5 2016-Mar-29 8:06 pm

maverick
Member
Registered: 2011-Sep-26
Posts: 50

Re: Garmin GTX 345

I understand your desire to replace the old Narco Transponder, but why. Now if you plan on flying above 18K and/or out of the US then there is  a plus with a ES transponder. That being said you still have to interface with an encoder and that is probably as old as the transponder and you have to do something else to get ADS-B IN. Without ADS-B IN you will not get the free stuff like radar, other weather products and traffic. So you spend all this money to meet FAA needs, but you get nada in benefits for yourself. I don't know if you are flying a certified airplne or an experimental. My discussion is about certified. I don't see on Appareo's WEB sight where they have an STC with an approved airplane list, so I believe you would have to do a one time STC to have a legal system. That ought to be fun.

There are solutions like Navworks that will work with old or new mode C Transponders and give you ADS-B IN through WiFi to your tablet with Naviator. That is the main reason why I became a Navworx dealer because the cost of most of these other systems will drive so many pilots away from flying.

Most other systems the installers need to be a Repair Station but I can just work with your I.A on an install. Is it perfect, no but affordable.

If you have discretionary funds, buy what you can convince your significant other you need for safety.  If not meet the regulations and move on. This is the same thing we did many years ago when we were forced to install encoders.

This is my humble opinion.

JIM

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#6 2016-Mar-30 9:58 am

flyzone
Member
Registered: 2012-Oct-04
Posts: 223

Re: Garmin GTX 345

The Appareo unit can include ADS-B IN as an option and it is included in the cost estimate I received from the Avionics shop. It is just one of the added features, besides the transponder, that I get for my additional $2500. The unit is expected to be certified this month. There is a catch since it is a Stratus receiver (that is wired thru the transponder) but it does include an AHRS which I very much want for at least some IFR backup in an AI failure. In my case the encoder was replaced a few years ago when I upgraded a radio and they found it cracked but if it is bad you need to replace it in any event; or not. In general, they don't last as long as a transponder. Frankly I didn't plan on replacing the transponder and was going down the route you outlined but this cost and config made it a no-brainer. Not only that, my transponder will probably sell for $500 offsetting this cost even more.

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#7 2016-Apr-03 7:50 pm

maverick
Member
Registered: 2011-Sep-26
Posts: 50

Re: Garmin GTX 345

Flyzone,

What kind of installed price did you receive? My interest is why I got into installs in the first place. I retired (sold) from my maintenance shop last year, got bored, and was listening to pilots wine about the cost of this new mandate. I also applied for a Repair Station to just do Transponder and Altimeter testing.  So I did a lot of research and started performing seminars on ADS-B trying to inform pilots about what was really happening. I became a Dealer for Navworx, working with the aircraft owner's I.A. for the physical install under my direction. I am pricing my installs with WiFi or Bluetooth around $4600. The owner can use any tablet or phone with any program, but I do suggest Naviator because I am familiar with it and don't care for the Apple products. I would also like to know how the shop will get around the STC requirement? Not only must the transponder be certified, but all the components needed to make the ADS-B OUT in a certified aircraft must have a TSO.
As soon as I have my Repair Station I will look into being a Dealer for some of the other units. That is why I ask the questions. I figured you had worked through some of the issues and might give me info that you found.
There will be so many older Mode C transponders around that you will have a hard time getting that price. As you stated anyone who needs a transponder will consider going to a Mode S.

JIM

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#8 2016-Apr-08 5:34 pm

flyzone
Member
Registered: 2012-Oct-04
Posts: 223

Re: Garmin GTX 345

My avionics shop gave me an estimate for about $7500 for an Appareo Stratus ESG unit which is a replacement transponder (Mode S) with built-in ADS-B out. My understanding is this is certified equipment to be released the end of this month but an FAA delay of a month or two is a probability. In addition, the Stratus 2S ADS-B in unit which is usually a portable but can be interconnected to the transponder provides the ADS-B IN function plus AHRS capability with battery backup for a power out or Attitude gyro out event. He also included a nearby USB power port for my yoke mount tablet setup. As I mentioned this permits only the use of one app, Foreflight, and is not compatible with Naviator or any other.

http://www.appareo.com/aviation/ads-b/

I think it is a good price for the capabilities provided however some alternatives are beginning to come forward like the new Dynon D10 or even the D2 for AI backup which would be more expensive but would be a better fit for your solutions for folks like me. And it could be done separately from the ADS-B upgrade and be compatible with more software alternatives. Dynon may be a particularly interesting avionics solutions provider for those of us without barrels of cash. The landscape of equipment seems to be changing rapidly making decision-making difficult and creates an environment where folks are constantly delaying their decisions making your job more difficult.

I don't know if this answers your questions. Although I've worked through a solution that suits me and checked some of this out I'm no expert.


p.s. Narco AT-150s are still selling on eBay for about $400-$500 (and lower) but as you say that price will probably drop quickly

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#9 2016-Apr-09 7:43 am

cmmguy
Member
Registered: 2015-Aug-04
Posts: 50

Re: Garmin GTX 345

$7500 to purchase and install a $3000 instrument?  What am I missing here?

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#10 2016-Apr-09 8:12 am

flyzone
Member
Registered: 2012-Oct-04
Posts: 223

Re: Garmin GTX 345

Stratus 2S (+$900), install one antenna, reconnect one existing (GPS+ADS-B), new tray and some wiring, interconnect 2S with ESG and encoder, fabricate panel tray for 2S with mount, install certified USB port on pilot side (+$450), test. That's just what I know. I'm sure my shop would tell me I forgot something.

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#11 2016-Jul-13 7:48 pm

clifton
Member
Registered: 2016-Mar-24
Posts: 2

Re: Garmin GTX 345

As the one who started this thread (which seems to have moved well away from the original question), my answer to "why replace the transponder" is having one that sporadically (and not repeatably) misreports altitude.  ATC isn't happy when you are flying under Class B and suddenly climb to double your altitude (although how I climb from 3000' to 6000' in the blink of an eye should make them wonder.)  While NavWorx has a nice (and compatible) product, I'm looking at a need to replace/repair transponder and/or encoder soon anyway, so seems like a better idea to go with a 1090ES solution now.

That said, it seems that both Stratus and Garmin use proprietary protocols that lock you in to Foreflight (or Pilot, in the case of Garmin.)  As far as I can tell, for those of us with certified aircraft Lynx is the only 1090ES solution that works with Naviator.

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#12 2016-Jul-14 10:35 am

flyzone
Member
Registered: 2012-Oct-04
Posts: 223

Re: Garmin GTX 345

Sounds like maybe your encoder could be the problem, and possibly not the transponder.

Having said that, after some reevaluation, I am going with the Garmin GTX 345 after previously settling on the Appareo. I will be replacing my encoder as well which is only about 3 years old since I have an Ameri-King unit which has come under a cloud from the FAA for non-TSO compliant manufacturing. The "built-on" Garmin encoder also has a simplified connection to the transponder and the additional cost for it is offset by more simplified wiring.  The built-in AHRS is also attractive to me and provides at least some backup to the AI for IFR flying.  Although I don't have an IFR-certified GPS, I do have an older Garmin VFR unit as well and a new Garmin GNC255 radio so for future expansion, including possibly Garmin Flighstream, I thought I would stay with them. I am not a fan of proprietary products that limit choices but in the final analysis I just had to roll over. Besides the Garmin units have been very reliable for me. I doubt they will interconnect with Android anytime soon after getting in bed with Foreflight but we will just have to wait and see.

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#13 2016-Jul-15 5:49 pm

JohnAJohnson
Member
Registered: 2013-Jul-20
Posts: 67

Re: Garmin GTX 345

clifton wrote:

...That said, it seems that both Stratus and Garmin use proprietary protocols that lock you in to Foreflight (or Pilot, in the case of Garmin.)  As far as I can tell, for those of us with certified aircraft Lynx is the only 1090ES solution that works with Naviator.


Clifton, check out the Navworx ADS600-B (about $2200).  I just helped a friend install it in his plane (took us approximately 18 hours to install) and can tell you the bluetooth IN to Naviator works perfectly.  He also has it ARINC'd into his Garmin 430 to display traffic, and it also has WIFI if he ever wants to send the IN to various apps on both android and iOS.  In my opinion, the Navworx box is the cheapest, best 2020 compliant solution that won't force you to use a specific app or hardware device.

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#14 2016-Aug-13 6:45 am

DanielArn
Banned
Registered: 2016-Aug-12
Posts: 1

Re: Garmin GTX 345

Hi...i want to know why do you need to upgrade transponder? If it is because of ADS-B and you want IN displayed on your panel, this equipment is a good buy. According to a shop I work with in CA it will ship April 1st. If you just want to meet the ADS-B out requirement and get your ADS-B in on your Naviator program then there are ways without changing transponder.

Last edited by DanielArn (2016-Sep-13 1:47 pm)

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#15 2016-Aug-14 2:29 pm

flyzone
Member
Registered: 2012-Oct-04
Posts: 223

Re: Garmin GTX 345

My reason is that I have a Narco AT-150. It is bulletproof but they are out of business and in spite of being in good shape, cavity tubes don't last forever. I can actually sell this now while it's worth a few bucks. Since I also want ADSB IN for traffic and weather when I'm flying IFR, I'm getting the transponder for a pretty good price. I'll get than back the minute I would have required service on the AT-150. Not only that, the transponder has a built-in AHRS (low cost option) as well as a bolt on pressure sensor to replace a questionable unit.

I was originally going the Appareo-ESG/Stratus route but in the end the Garmin just made more sense in spite of some additional cost. Also, Garmin has just put too many small companies out of biz.

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